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Sue said:
Either Jon or Steven Colbert had an expert on that wrote a book about Islamic factions (Shite & Sunni) in Iraq and compared them to earthquake faults. There is an enormous fault line running right through the middle of the country and Saddam was able to keep control of it with force, and things have fallen apart since we introduced democracy. If we leave, the 'big one' will hit and the nation will be destroyed. Did you hear that interview? I found it very enlightening. So, I don't think it will make a difference if we go or not. These people have to make it on their own.
My reply:
Unfortunately I didn't.
A friend of mine who's a Shiite Muslim told me that it's taught somewhere that the biggest enemies of their religion are not the Christians/Jews/hedonists but the Sunnis and likewise the Shiites are for the Sunnis.
But he (like most other Muslims who are peace-loving) doesn't think that means Shiites and Sunnis should kill each other like they're doing in Iraq now.
In my humble opinion, I think what's happening now is a shift in power from the Sunnis to the Shiites, which is igniting old enmities and grievances among those who lost power and those with scores to settle. Most of the common folks in Iraq would love peace.
You're right in that, unfortunately, it is the minority that is prone to resorting to violence who have the guns and the bombs, and they are causing turmoil and inciting hatred. And it does seem more than likely now that they are winning the day.
I think I might be naive but I'm still hoping for something that America can do, since we went in and messed things up, despite the original good intentions. (Arguably, the American public believed that we went to war to spread democracy and rid the country of a despot. But it is sad that the majority of soldiers and ordinary Americans believed this, even though it may very well have been just a sweet-sounding ideal, far from reality, that we were led or misled to believe.) Notwithstanding, even though the outlook in Iraq (that is portrayed to us by the media) seems more and more dire, I think to up and leave now may be premature. On the other hand, it may ultimately be, as you say, Sue, that whether we're there or not would make no difference.
However, I don't really know, and I don't think many people know either. Even experts hold different opinions, depending on their leanings, I dare say. All I can say, for sure, is that this should be a lesson learnt, don't go to war for unjustified reasons, and when it was clear (to me it was very clear in 2003, at least) that such a war would cause more extremist hatred.
Either Jon or Steven Colbert had an expert on that wrote a book about Islamic factions (Shite & Sunni) in Iraq and compared them to earthquake faults. There is an enormous fault line running right through the middle of the country and Saddam was able to keep control of it with force, and things have fallen apart since we introduced democracy. If we leave, the 'big one' will hit and the nation will be destroyed. Did you hear that interview? I found it very enlightening. So, I don't think it will make a difference if we go or not. These people have to make it on their own.
My reply:
Unfortunately I didn't.
A friend of mine who's a Shiite Muslim told me that it's taught somewhere that the biggest enemies of their religion are not the Christians/Jews/hedonists but the Sunnis and likewise the Shiites are for the Sunnis.
But he (like most other Muslims who are peace-loving) doesn't think that means Shiites and Sunnis should kill each other like they're doing in Iraq now.
In my humble opinion, I think what's happening now is a shift in power from the Sunnis to the Shiites, which is igniting old enmities and grievances among those who lost power and those with scores to settle. Most of the common folks in Iraq would love peace.
You're right in that, unfortunately, it is the minority that is prone to resorting to violence who have the guns and the bombs, and they are causing turmoil and inciting hatred. And it does seem more than likely now that they are winning the day.
I think I might be naive but I'm still hoping for something that America can do, since we went in and messed things up, despite the original good intentions. (Arguably, the American public believed that we went to war to spread democracy and rid the country of a despot. But it is sad that the majority of soldiers and ordinary Americans believed this, even though it may very well have been just a sweet-sounding ideal, far from reality, that we were led or misled to believe.) Notwithstanding, even though the outlook in Iraq (that is portrayed to us by the media) seems more and more dire, I think to up and leave now may be premature. On the other hand, it may ultimately be, as you say, Sue, that whether we're there or not would make no difference.
However, I don't really know, and I don't think many people know either. Even experts hold different opinions, depending on their leanings, I dare say. All I can say, for sure, is that this should be a lesson learnt, don't go to war for unjustified reasons, and when it was clear (to me it was very clear in 2003, at least) that such a war would cause more extremist hatred.
posted by mr tickle at 9:51 PM
2 Comments:
I think that we just poked our big nose in their business in 2003, but what I meant to say is that our government has not to my knowledge analyzed the problem from this point of view and they should. This is the point of view that matters to achieve true peace in the region as far as I can see. I'm just saying look at what impact our leaving will have on this point of view and behave accordingly but keep in mind that we really need to get the hell out of there as soon as we can.
grate site thank you.
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